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Post by wonk on Sept 19, 2012 9:48:17 GMT -8
I think we're in agreement on a lot of points here. The main point I disagree with is the blanket statement, "The replacement refs are horrible." I only watched the first quarter of the Monday night game, and quit watching during that 15 minute fumble delay, so I don't know if they missed that call. Prior to that disaster (which I still think was 100% caused by the coaches and players feeling entitled to arguing with the refs because they are replacements), I thought it was almost a perfectly officiated first quarter. Yes the refs were put in an impossible situation, but they are doing much better than they are given credit for. Everyone reads about how much the replacements suck, they hear about how much the replacements suck, then they watch a game and when a bad call is eventually made, it clicks. "OMG, THEY REALLY DO SUCK," all while forgetting the regular refs routinely make bad calls as well.
Going back to my first post on this topic, recall the reason I am so pro replacements is because I think it's complete horseshit that NFL refs make a really good living while working the same amount of hours in a year that I do in one week, yet they are demanding more? Fuck them. And I'll reiterate that I hope the replacements are making a comparable wage so they can afford a nice vacation when all of this is over.
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Post by Cbats on Sept 19, 2012 11:11:18 GMT -8
Yeah, I think we agree on most of the points. You're right about the players and coaches trying to take advantage of them (one of the best comments I heard during MNF compared them to substitute teachers which is pretty spot on), but that doesn't excuse their inability to control these teams. After this week, I fully expect to see multiple people ejected if they try to push the refs around. If the league is not telling the replacements that they need to make and example of people who are out of line then they're doing something wrong.
I'm not sure how you can survive as a sports fan if you're so irate about the refs being overpaid. The people sitting on the bench in a football game make more in a week than you do in a year. I won't argue that the refs aren't being paid a fair wage but does the league really deserve it anymore? There is so much money flowing through the league right now and I can't blame the refs for thinking they deserve a bit more of it.
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Post by Fig on Sept 19, 2012 12:56:34 GMT -8
Again I am in agreement with your last point cbats.
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Post by wonk on Sept 19, 2012 22:59:02 GMT -8
Yeah, I think we agree on most of the points. You're right about the players and coaches trying to take advantage of them (one of the best comments I heard during MNF compared them to substitute teachers which is pretty spot on), but that doesn't excuse their inability to control these teams. After this week, I fully expect to see multiple people ejected if they try to push the refs around. If the league is not telling the replacements that they need to make and example of people who are out of line then they're doing something wrong. Yes, I touched on this point earlier when I said the NBA and MLB have rules against arguing certain calls. This needs to be done immediately in the NFL. I'm not sure how you can survive as a sports fan if you're so irate about the refs being overpaid. The people sitting on the bench in a football game make more in a week than you do in a year. I won't argue that the refs aren't being paid a fair wage but does the league really deserve it anymore? There is so much money flowing through the league right now and I can't blame the refs for thinking they deserve a bit more of it. Here is our main disagreement. I also touched on this earlier with the lottery analogy, which could be enough to defend my point, but I'll elaborate because I like talking sports (I'm 25% jock). We've already established the regular NFL refs are better at controlling the game. That is obvious. The replacements will get better at this with more experience. What refs in general get paid for is judgment. It's calling what they see. Judgment is equivalent to being able to read. Most of us can read, and most of us can make a sound judgment based on what we see. Sure some of us have terrible judgment, just like some of us can't read. Is there really an elite level of people who can read better than 99% of the population? I'm cool with athletes making an enormous amount of money, because they are elite athletes. The regular NFL refs are not elite when it comes to judgment. They only have to be able to jog 40 yards, which is also something many of us with sound judgment and normal eyes can do (there should be a lawsuit by handicapped people not being allowed to be NFL refs). Aspiring NFL refs don't grow up practicing judgment, like NBA players grow up mastering their jump shot. NFL refs are average folk like all of us who know how to read. I could beat the crap out of nearly every NFL official, except Ed Hochuli. They are lucky to be the average person making a shit ton of money making judgment calls. The NFL powers that be obviously agree with me here, otherwise the replacements wouldn't exist. Sure there is more money to be passed around, because like you said, the NFL makes a shit ton of money. The NFL has raised the minimum salary of players, and offered a similar increase to the refs, but they wouldn't accept that. So fuck them. The difference in quality between the regulars and replacements will grow smaller each week. The NFL is calling the overpaid ref's bluff. PS: I make a lot more in a year than the minimum wage bench warmer makes in a week  PSS: Fig will automatically like your reply, because he is a filthy Ravens fan. |
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Post by Shaxspear III Esq. on Sept 20, 2012 20:52:53 GMT -8
I agree with most of what you said, but using your analogy... I see the replacement refs right now as C grade high school kids being asked to read a masters thesis on globalization and interpret it. Yeah they know how to read, but they're not as emmersed in the subject and understand it as much as Anil Gupta. That Monday night game really pissed me off. If I know that a defensive holding penalty is 5 yards and not 10, then I would have hoped one the SEVEN referees would have picked that up.
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Post by Shaxspear III Esq. on Sept 23, 2012 12:30:50 GMT -8
End of the Niners game was another shitshow of refs not knowing the rules. Same crew from the Monday night game last week. That crew needs to get kicked to the curb.
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Post by Fig on Sept 23, 2012 14:00:09 GMT -8
That was fucking awful.
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Post by Shaxspear III Esq. on Sept 23, 2012 14:29:12 GMT -8
Wow.... I'm surprised Matt Schaub is still alive after that hit.
Helmets! They work!
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Post by Cbats on Sept 23, 2012 17:06:20 GMT -8
Wow.... I'm surprised Matt Schaub is still alive after that hit. Helmets! They work! I didn't see the hit on Schaub but Darius Heyward-Bey might literally be dead after taking a shot in the endzone. Clear helmet to helmet contact and the refs didn't even throw a flag. It's seriously time to bring the real refs back...the replacements seem to be getting worse week by week |
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Post by Shaxspear III Esq. on Sept 23, 2012 17:11:00 GMT -8
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Post by Fig on Sept 23, 2012 20:03:13 GMT -8
Yup, those refs aren't cheapening the NFL's product at all.
What a fucking joke, I mean I'm happy that my team came out with the W but this is stupid to the point of being unwatchable. If Chris Collinsworth feels compelled to shut the fuck up about Tom Brady for even one brief moment in order to show disgust towards what these refs are doing to the game, then you know it is serious.
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Post by Shaxspear III Esq. on Sept 23, 2012 20:16:20 GMT -8
Hahahaha.
The hoodie is going to get a nice fine for the end of that game.
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Post by Fig on Sept 23, 2012 20:43:17 GMT -8
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Post by Shaxspear III Esq. on Sept 24, 2012 19:52:14 GMT -8
Yep. The refs are great. Nothing to see here folks.
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DeadPunk
Man-Eating Higabon
Pink Elephants
Posts: 758
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Post by DeadPunk on Sept 24, 2012 19:56:41 GMT -8
Hilarious. GO HAWKS
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Post by wonk on Sept 24, 2012 20:08:05 GMT -8
DAMN IT, THE REGULARS REFS NEED TO QUIT DEMANDING SO MUCH MONEY SO THEY CAN MAKE QUESTIONABLE GAME DECIDING DECISIONS INSTEAD!!!!!
Oh wait, everyone forgot negotiations involve two sides.
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Post by Pea on Sept 24, 2012 20:14:05 GMT -8
This entire season is already down the toilet. Seriously, put a fucking asterisk next to this year's Super Bowl winner.
NOW...THAT SAID. GOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAWKS!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Post by wonk on Sept 24, 2012 20:57:05 GMT -8
I missed the entire game except the last two plays, and a questionable call "gave" the Chickens a victory. I looked up the game stats, and the Packers only gained 248 yards. One of the best offenses in the NFL only gained 248 yards? Great job by the Seattle defense. If the Packers deserved to win that game, they shouldn't have given the "terrible replacements" a chance to cost them the game, right? They should have dominated the game and won by 30. Does anyone disagree with this statement? I gave up on blaming refs for bad calls many years ago, but I'm an anomaly. Did the replacement refs favor the Seahawks all game? I didn't watch the game, so that's a legit question.
Everyone knows refs in general suck, I've made this point already several times. Out play your opponent, then questionable calls won't decide games, because everyone knows refs suck (even the replacements). I've never disputed this point, but how is this not a level playing field? The replacements make most of the correct calls, and miss some tough "questionable" calls, but they aren't favoring one team over another.
Everyone is still blaming the NFL. EVERYONE. Why isn't anyone except me blaming the regular refs for demanding what they don't deserve? Did everyone forget the comment that I work more in a week than NFL refs work in a year? Many of us work more in a week than NFL refs do in a year. The NFL offered a comparable raise for the refs they offered the bench warming athletes. WHY DOES NOBODY CARE ABOUT THIS FACT?
Just remember that every Chickens fan believes they were robbed of a Super Bowl a couple years ago against the Steelers because of the regular NFL refs, and those same fans are celebrating their win tonight.
If the GB defender catching the ball had swatted that ball above his head out of bounds, like every defender is taught, Packers win. Regular refs never call offensive pass interference on a hail mary (and I'll admit that was an obvious offensive pass interference), so that missed call is moot. The Packers have no one to blame but themselves. It was a strange play, but knowing they have replacements refs, they chose to give the replacements a chance to make a bad call. Seattle played a great game against a better team, and put themselves in a position to win the game. And they won. Congrats Seattle.
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Post by Shaxspear III Esq. on Sept 24, 2012 21:34:42 GMT -8
Yes the regular refs make questionable calls, but the frequency and how bad some of these calls are WAAAAAAAAAAY worse than the regular refs.
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Post by wonk on Sept 24, 2012 21:45:22 GMT -8
Yes the regular refs make questionable calls, but the frequency and how bad some of these calls are WAAAAAAAAAAY worse than the regular refs. So replacements are worse than regulars. Good point. We all agree. Who is at fault? |
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