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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 15:28:40 GMT -8
So do you guys all insist on paying face value when you buy tickets for events where the price is cheaper than face value on concert day (like Coachella Weekend #2)? Because if not, you're all hypocrites.
Buying tickets en masse, with the intent to hike the price up and sell them for profit is one thing (scalping), but allowing people to sell their tickets at whatever the market value is at just makes sense. Also allowing more "liquidity"(this might be the wrong word) in the market (aka bringing more buyers and more sellers together), will probably help the price go down, considering that's the trend it has shown since day 1... You guys would all end up better off.
I'm not buying any more tickets, or selling the ones I have, but you guys will have a hell of a lot easier time finding tickets if you just allow people to post on here at whatever price they want, then negotiate them down to a mutual price/market value.
Someone who has to sell their ticket took on the risk of the ticket losing value, and having to sell below face value, as well as the inconvenience of locking up $350 for months. If they always sell at face value, they wll get screwed some of the time, and break even some of the time, which means they lose in the long run.
Obviously if some good samaritan wants to do you a favor and sell for face value, that's awesome and totally respectable, but treating people that sell at market value like lepers is a good way to end up missing Sasquatch.
Again, I don't support scalpers, but the average joe who cant afford it anymore should be able to post a ticket here for $400 if he wants. It would help the people looking for tickets as well.
Fwiw selling over face value is legal here, so maybe in some states/provinces it's illegal, and that changes everything.
Just my 2 cents (over face value).
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Post by davers on May 6, 2013 15:37:38 GMT -8
There are tons of other sites where people post tickets for sale at whatever price they want. This site has basically no effect on secondary market ticket prices.
You make it sound like the ticket sellers are treating the tickets like stocks. I think that is exactly what people hate. You buy a ticket if you want to go, if by some twist of fate, you can't make it, you might take a hit and lose a few dollars. If you try and get more for the ticket, you're a scalper.
I'm more or less in favour of the free market and such but when people buy up tons of tickets and drive up ticket prices for the average concert goer then you can see why it pisses everyone off.
People who bought tickets early and then put them up on craigslist 3 hours after sellout for $200 above face aren't just some dudes who found out they couldn't go, they are people who bought with the intention of making money.
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Post by emptyfox on May 6, 2013 15:46:31 GMT -8
So do you guys all insist on paying face value when you buy tickets for events where the price is cheaper than face value on concert day (like Coachella Weekend #2)? Because if not, you're all hypocrites. Buying tickets en masse, with the intent to hike the price up and sell them for profit is one thing (scalping), but allowing people to sell their tickets at whatever the market value is at just makes sense. Also allowing more "liquidity"(this might be the wrong word) in the market (aka bringing more buyers and more sellers together), will probably help the price go down, considering that's the trend it has shown since day 1... You guys would all end up better off. I'm not buying any more tickets, or selling the ones I have, but you guys will have a hell of a lot easier time finding tickets if you just allow people to post on here at whatever price they want, then negotiate them down to a mutual price/market value. Someone who has to sell their ticket took on the risk of the ticket losing value, and having to sell below face value, as well as the inconvenience of locking up $350 for months. If they always sell at face value, they wll get screwed some of the time, and break even some of the time, which means they lose in the long run. Obviously if some good samaritan wants to do you a favor and sell for face value, that's awesome and totally respectable, but treating people that sell at market value like lepers is a good way to end up missing Sasquatch. Again, I don't support scalpers, but the average joe who cant afford it anymore should be able to post a ticket here for $400 if he wants. It would help the people looking for tickets as well. Fwiw selling over face value is legal here, so maybe in some states/provinces it's illegal, and that changes everything. Just my 2 cents (over face value). We do not allow it here. It is not up for discussion, and the rule will not be changed. You perpetuate the trade by paying exorbitant prices which in no way benefit the artists or organizers. It's immoral, and it should be illegal.
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Post by rüstü on May 6, 2013 16:04:21 GMT -8
If you honestly think that having everyone buy tickets at market value will drive prices down, you need to take another economics class. Market value is what some people are willing to pay, but they shouldn't have to pay that much. Tickets aren't a commodity to be sold for profit, but many people treat them that way, which causes this entire problem. Granted, demand at this time is much higher than supply so people can easily get away with selling at high cost, but it won't be that way for long. Buying/selling at market value instead of face value raises prices until the point that supply exceeds demand.
If people refuse to pay those high prices, it makes the demand on high price tickets go way way down, forcing ticket sellers to lower prices if they want to get a sale.
Keep in mind, anybody listing a ticket for over face value on any site is the definition of a scalper. I don't care if it was their intention when they bought it or not, they are scalping. We can't stop scalpers from scalping, but we can try our best to minimize the amount of scalping that gets done.
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Post by rüstü on May 6, 2013 16:07:07 GMT -8
So do you guys all insist on paying face value when you buy tickets for events where the price is cheaper than face value on concert day (like Coachella Weekend #2)? Because if not, you're all hypocrites. You're assuming that any of us did that, which is the wrong way to argue a point. I'm trying to pay exactly what the ticket is worth, I'm not waiting until the last second to try to get a good deal.
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Post by wonk on May 6, 2013 17:26:34 GMT -8
Someone who has to sell their ticket took on the risk of the ticket losing value, and having to sell below face value, as well as the inconvenience of locking up $350 for months. If they always sell at face value, they wll get screwed some of the time, and break even some of the time, which means they lose in the long run. I've been doing this for eight years, and have lost a lot of money because of it. Regrets? None. Imagine this. You recently bought a cat for $100, but were evicted because you are late on rent. Your friend who is allergic to cats is willing to let you move in as a favor, but the cat is not allowed. Do you sell your cat to the college student who can only afford $73.59, or do you sell it to the taxidermist for $250 who likes the shape of the cat's head, and needs a new scarf for his wife? Find a good home for your ticket.
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Post by nater on May 6, 2013 18:13:51 GMT -8
For once, I get wonk.
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Post by Professor Pancakes on May 6, 2013 18:50:39 GMT -8
do you sell it to the taxidermist for $250 who likes the shape of the cat's head, and needs a new scarf for his wife? Wait. You can do that? I've got three cats that I hate...
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Post by kymess_jr on May 6, 2013 19:08:29 GMT -8
Let's say I went to the store and bought a brand new pair of hiking boots because I was planning on going on a hiking trip at the end of the summer. Then I ended up breaking a leg and couldn't go on my hiking trip and now had medical bills to pay. Now let's say I don't have the cash to pay those bills but still have my unused, perfectly new hiking boots in the closet. Do you think it's fair for me to go on craigslist and post an ad asking for exactly what I paid at the store several months earlier? What about marking up the price say $50 to factor in my effort of having gone to the store and purchasing them several months earlier, then holding on to them and keeping them in brand new condition, and finally driving to meet you somewhere so you can buy them from me? Do you still think it's ok to mark up the price to what I now consider fair market value that includes my time and gas used on this purchase? Probably not. We both know I'd be super lucky to sell any goods on craigslist for the store price, let alone making a profit.
It's become common practice to treat tickets like stocks or real estate investments, where it's ok to "flip" them for a profit as long as the show has sold out. But most goods we buy at a store lose value the minute you walk out with your purchase, even if it's still in the box, and maybe it's time to start treating tickets like this. And in that sense, I think it's more than fair for people to be willing to pay the full face value of ticket without the seller taking any loss like I would have to on the hiking boots.
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Post by davers on May 6, 2013 20:11:23 GMT -8
I've already said that scalpers can go eat a bag of dicks but the cat and the boots are both shitty comparisons. The ticket doesn't care who takes it to the show. It isn't like the guy who has more money is going to use the wristband as jewlery and only see Mumsons. Having money doesn't make you less of a music fan. With the boots someone could easily go to the store and buy a new pair and the store would probably provide some warrenty against defects, thus making the non-store ones better. If the store was sold out of those boots, then maybe you have something.
In other news, I talked a dude down from $550 to $350 in the last 2 hours. I can smell the fear.
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Post by Drew on May 6, 2013 20:28:31 GMT -8
I hate capitalism. Capitalism is the reason we're arguing with this mongoloid. The government should set ticket prices and anyone selling or buying for a different price should be executed, and I'm barely being hyperbolic.
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Post by wonk on May 6, 2013 20:37:22 GMT -8
I've already said that scalpers can go eat a bag of dicks but the cat and the boots are both shitty comparisons. The ticket doesn't care who takes it to the show. It isn't like the guy who has more money is going to use the wristband as jewlery and only see Mumsons. Having money doesn't make you less of a music fan. Are you really combating my "find a good home" cat analogy by saying rich people deserve tickets, because it seems like you're trying to combat my "find a good home" cat analogy by saying rich people deserve tickets. Rich people already have tickets, because they can click that button that says "give me a $500 pass."
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Post by davers on May 6, 2013 22:12:21 GMT -8
Come on man, selling a cat to be killed =/= selling a ticket for more than face value.
You can do better.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 6:36:14 GMT -8
I hate capitalism. Capitalism is the reason we're arguing with this mongoloid. The government should set ticket prices and anyone selling or buying for a different price should be executed, and I'm barely being hyperbolic. Did a guy that just called me a mongoloid really just suggest that the government should control concert ticket prices? lol Keep raging bro! I have a feeling you would be the first person leading the protests against the government set prices. Hint : They're gonna set them at market value and not face value, and I can't wait to see what types of taxes are added. You guys all seem to be missing the fact that if the market value is $X, and that is higher than the face value, all that means is that the people who lined up and bought the tickets when the tickets first went on sale got a discount. Why is everyone so entitled that they feel they deserve one at face value? Where were you on the day they went on sale? The promoters sell it below market value so that they sell out immediately (or as close to this as possible). It's a reward for the people that line up that day. It also allows them to profit off the interest by holding on to millions of dollars for months. That's money coming directly out of the pockets of the people who bought the tickets originally. If you are going to say you didnt want a ticket until the lineup was announced, or you didnt have the money back then, or whatever reason, then believe it or not YOU are the one relying on the service of scalpers. Scalpers help sell the event out, so that AT YOUR CONVENIENCE you can buy the ticket for market value down the road. Promoters dont want 4000 tickets available at the door (which is what would happen if they set it at market value), because that's a huge risk. Instead they give EVERYONE a discount, sell it for below market value, and that affords them the luxury of selling out immediately and letting the scalpers resell the tickets if they want. The scalpers take on the risk. You are all acting like you are entitled to this service for free. No matter how you look at it, it's a service. Whether that's provided by scalpers, or the average joe who has to sell his ticket weeks down the road. I hate scalpers. I wish they didn't exist. But this is the system we have, and in this system, they are a necessary evil. Banning them is cool (which I guess I even agree with), as long as you realize that this also hurts your chances of finding someone selling somewhere between face value and the currrent stubhub rates. I guarantee you that you would get cheaper tickets on here than stubhub if you allowed people to set and negotiate their own prices. I guess what I'm trying to say is, cut your hair you hippy.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 6:45:16 GMT -8
All of that said, I pretty much agree with everything davers has said. Except I wasn't talking about the entire market of Sasquatch tickets, I just meant the people that are on these boards that are looking for tickets. If someone is going to sell for face value, they're going to do that regardless, so allowing people selling above face value won't ever hurt you.
Giving yourselves more options can't be a bad thing. Just don't buy them off the guy who is selling for $500, but maybe you do off the guy selling for $370?
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Post by rüstü on May 7, 2013 7:53:52 GMT -8
I can't believe you're suggesting that scalpers HELP the promoter sell tickets. They literally buy tickets that people who are actually attending the festival would've bought (keep in mind, Sasquatch has sold out since at least 2009 so there's no doubt the demand is high enough), and then they sell them at a price much higher than those people would've had to pay. If it were a smaller show that was unlikely to sell out then yes, scalpers take a risk, but with Sasquatch there is 0% risk involved. It's 100% scumbaggery and for you to suggest that they provide a valuable service makes me disregard everything you say. Along with the numerous other logical fallacies in your argument, I now know to disregard any further arguments from you on. Seriously, I'm done arguing about this. That is the dumbest thing I've read in the last week.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 8:23:28 GMT -8
You're wrong.
Scalpers are the best thing to happen to concerts since $8 beer as far as promoters are concerned.
Your proof is the fact that they still exist. It would be exceptionally easy for promoters to make tickets much much harder to scalp, yet they do nothing. Ask yourself why?
Selling out is not the same as Selling out in an hour. Try planning an event like Sasquatch on credit, and try planning an event like Sasquatch with all of the ticket sales already in your bank account. Huge difference. Millions of dollars worth of a difference.
There is a reason that concert tickets go on sale SO far before shows nowadays.
The service that scalpers provide to promoters is invaluable. This is a fact, and not even possible to debate. So you're right, I guess you are done arguing it.
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Post by rüstü on May 7, 2013 8:29:40 GMT -8
Ok man, have fun scalping.
I don't doubt that scalpers buy tickets before other people would, giving promoters money earlier, but I honestly don't care. That's not the argument we're making and that's not the point at all. The point is that they are human scum who make profits out of something that was never intended to be profitable.
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Post by wonk on May 7, 2013 8:31:36 GMT -8
Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. You don't need to write fifteen paragraphs explaining scalping, we all understand how it works. There will always be drunk assholes looking to start a f.ight at a bar, there will always be shitty drivers, there will always be people cheating on their spouse, and there will always be scalpers. Did you really think spending twenty minutes on your post explaining this would be beneficial to us? A large part of the problem is people scalp their tickets because they don't know any better. These Sasquatch fans are ripping off other Sasquatch fans, who would probably be one of their best friends under different circumstances. They don't think about the what that extra $100 means to someone living on a tight budget. It is up to us to inform these people that they don't need to play the part of a scumbag piece of shit. They are allowed to hook up a fellow Sasquatch fan. They are allowed to do a good deed. We don't need spicypie to explain to us how scumbag pieces of shit operate, we're saying don't be a scumbag piece of shit.
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Post by rüstü on May 7, 2013 8:36:25 GMT -8
*High fives wonk*
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