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Post by kymess_jr on Mar 27, 2013 12:42:12 GMT -8
I would absolutely hate it if this place became the "official" board. I've been part of other forums that were bought out by legitimate companies and made official, and you guys are really underestimating the changes. You think we're pretty good at censoring ourselves (which we actually are) and it wouldn't really have to change much? Nope, not true at all.
If Zacks wants to have an official board for people to seek out information and advice on, more power to him. If you guys want a board that can offer actual prizes for line up predictions and have an official representative post once in awhile, go visit that board once it's opened. But I'll still come here to socialize with you guys on a daily basis because this place has become about so much more than just talking about Sasquatch, and anyone who is willing to stick around this place from June to December will easily see that.
Yes, maybe there are times when hazing noobs goes too far and we definitely have a low threshold for stupidity, ignorance and immaturity. But that's what makes this place run smoothly year round instead of dying out come June 1st. We can implement all the "read this thread first" stickies you want but the people those threads are meant for never see them or read them anyway. And the noobs that always say they are nervous to post in the first place 'cause they don't want to be run off for poor grammar or stupid questions need to start realizing they won't be since they have already proven they are a leg above the others by having read around the board and noticed that this happened to other [less researched] noobs. That's why we've had such a great recent influx of noobs that have so quickly and easily transitioned into boardies.
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Post by Nadine Hurley on Mar 27, 2013 12:42:25 GMT -8
If I were Adam Zacks I would read this shit ALL THE TIME and pretend like I didn't.
" ... but I’ve learned that the people on those boards can be really nasty to newcomers."
"I posted on there one time without using punctuation/capitalization and got bitched out."
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 13:51:58 GMT -8
I think we would be fooling ourselves to think that punctuation and capitalization is all that people get on each other about here. I don't know the answer. And I don't think there is really a correct answer. I just think Adam Zacks comment can help us reflect and remember that just because there is the vast abyss of the internet between you and someone else shouldn't negate humanity and respect.
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Post by stalkinopossum on Mar 27, 2013 14:10:13 GMT -8
This tread cracks me up.
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Post by rüstü on Mar 27, 2013 14:16:08 GMT -8
I think there's a lot that a community like this COULD potentially add to a Sasquatch experience.
Annually, there are tons of people that show up on the boards with questions and turn away with nothing because they either A. get run out of town due to being idiots, or B. cannot find what they're looking for because the search function on this site is abysmal and worthless for people who aren't on here all the time. There's a lot of basic knowledge and organization that, if it were readily available/well put together/easy to find, would drastically improve people's Sasquatch experience overall.
A friend and I have discussed this and actually planned/have already started creating a resource that would do exactly this. We have plans to go through the lineup and create a directory where it's easy to listen to prime examples of each of (most of) the artists and read about why you would enjoy seeing them live. We plan on creating a map/organization system for the campground, so instead of saying "we're on the long road past the food carts to the right of the red bull truck, past the second set of porto potties, on the left and about halfway down that road", you can say "I'm in zone A3 next to a Canadian flag" and someone can legitimately use that to find you. Those things, along with a lot of basic information about camping, rules, food, advice on things to pack or many other similar topics. If this existed and was attached to the Sasquatch brand and readily available on their website, it would be a valued resource to the community, no doubt. There's nowhere on the internet that actually provides that information to anyone aside from here. And let's face it, this board is a very inefficient way to mine that info.
I think this can be said about a lot of festivals. If something like this were to exist that could cover as many festivals as possible, imagine how many people would be helped!
Just my two cents on the topic.
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Darth
North American Scumfoot
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Post by Darth on Mar 27, 2013 14:30:18 GMT -8
In regards to the posts about giving people a hard time due to punctuation and grammar.
Please keep in mind that not everyone has had equal access to education AND those levels of education that people do receive vary greatly. We could all stand to be a bit more sensitive to those who may have struggled with literacy, suffered from dyslexia, or like I said before- have a lack of education (which is not always that person's fault).
Also, what one person may lack in education (punctuation and grammar), due to economical, social or whatever life circumstances have got in their way, they may over exceed in something else that one of us could be weak in.
Just thought I'd put that out there.
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Post by Pea on Mar 27, 2013 14:32:28 GMT -8
Hey guys what did I miss?
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Darth
North American Scumfoot
Posts: 683
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Post by Darth on Mar 27, 2013 14:34:10 GMT -8
EVERYTHING!!!!
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Post by nater on Mar 27, 2013 14:54:22 GMT -8
I understand darth's statement to a point. At the same time, no unequal access to education justifies the use of numbers for letters, or liking Skrillex.
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Post by Cysquatch on Mar 27, 2013 15:26:02 GMT -8
I understand darth's statement to a point. At the same time, no unequal access to education justifies the use of numbers for letters, or liking Skrillex. Hey now, there is no reason to bring Skrillex into this. He has produced some pretty good chunes. However, I can not vouch for him as a DJ.
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Darth
North American Scumfoot
Posts: 683
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Post by Darth on Mar 27, 2013 15:51:44 GMT -8
I understand darth's statement to a point. At the same time, no unequal access to education justifies the use of numbers for letters, or liking Skrillex. HA, Skrillex burn! HA, using numbers as letters burrr..... HEY waaait a minute. NATER!
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Post by rüstü on Mar 27, 2013 15:56:52 GMT -8
If I could play solitaire with my ableton controller I would love that.
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Post by Drew on Mar 27, 2013 16:35:35 GMT -8
I would absolutely hate it if this place became the "official" board. I've been part of other forums that were bought out by legitimate companies and made official, and you guys are really underestimating the changes. You think we're pretty good at censoring ourselves (which we actually are) and it wouldn't really have to change much? Nope, not true at all. I have no experience with this - what changed at those boards?
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Post by Drew on Mar 27, 2013 16:37:20 GMT -8
In regards to the posts about giving people a hard time due to punctuation and grammar. Please keep in mind that not everyone has had equal access to education AND those levels of education that people do receive vary greatly. We could all stand to be a bit more sensitive to those who may have struggled with literacy, suffered from dyslexia, or like I said before- have a lack of education (which is not always that person's fault). Also, what one person may lack in education (punctuation and grammar), due to economical, social or whatever life circumstances have got in their way, they may over exceed in something else that one of us could be weak in. Just thought I'd put that out there. This is an incredibly good point, and I'm embarrassed for not having thought of it myself. Grammar is a social construction and a class construction, another tool the upper class uses to separate itself from lower classes. Mostly when we complain it's not about grammar, but about lack of effort from people who know better, but it's important to keep in mind that not everyone gets to have writing lessons from an English instructor for 16 years of their lives.
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Post by kymess_jr on Mar 27, 2013 16:44:42 GMT -8
Look, we may be using poor grammar/overuse of internet speak as an example for people being "run off" this board, but that is rarely the real reason why those posters leave. Normally it's because as soon as they are asked to try to speak like an adult they break out into a childish tantrum or show their true colours as someone who is abusive, rude, racist/sexist/some-sort-of-discriminationist. People who react that way to simply being asked to try are not reasonable, sane people that will be able to offer any insight or take part in the discussions and debates as we all do here daily on many topics beyond just Sasquatch. And quite frankly, I don't think many of you guys want those people sticking around anyway. There's nothing wrong with not having the best spelling, misusing the semi-colon or not knowing the difference between then and than, and replying to some posts with the occasional "tl;dr" or "LOL" or "^this guy". I have dyslexia and dysgraphia but I still try to type in a reasonable manner for the majority of my posts so I can have a conversation with you guys. And that's all that seems to be asked of anyone that wants to play here. As for other types of hazing, I don't want to say it's all justified because many times it's not. However, many times it's a case of different people having different sensibilities. No one is going to get along with everyone and on the internet that's no different, it's probably even worse. Yes, I think some posters' "sense of humour" isn't funny and/or the teasing can be overboard to people they continuously poke. Then again, I think some posters take the internet way too seriously sometimes. These cases though don't fit the type of noobs that end up leaving in a few posts or a day though. Those people that walk away (or are banned) from the board that fast fit the noobs who couldn't handle typing like an adult. I think there's a lot that a community like this COULD potentially add to a Sasquatch experience. Annually, there are tons of people that show up on the boards with questions and turn away with nothing because they either A. get run out of town due to being idiots, or B. cannot find what they're looking for because the search function on this site is abysmal and worthless for people who aren't on here all the time. There's a lot of basic knowledge and organization that, if it were readily available/well put together/easy to find, would drastically improve people's Sasquatch experience overall. A friend and I have discussed this and actually planned/have already started creating a resource that would do exactly this. We have plans to go through the lineup and create a directory where it's easy to listen to prime examples of each of (most of) the artists and read about why you would enjoy seeing them live. We plan on creating a map/organization system for the campground, so instead of saying "we're on the long road past the food carts to the right of the red bull truck, past the second set of porto potties, on the left and about halfway down that road", you can say "I'm in zone A3 next to a Canadian flag" and someone can legitimately use that to find you. Those things, along with a lot of basic information about camping, rules, food, advice on things to pack or many other similar topics. If this existed and was attached to the Sasquatch brand and readily available on their website, it would be a valued resource to the community, no doubt. There's nowhere on the internet that actually provides that information to anyone aside from here. And let's face it, this board is a very inefficient way to mine that info. I think I missed the memo that said it was the responsibility of this board to enhance others people's [first] Sasquatch experience by being a well-organized resource of information and tips. That's absolutely great if that's what you get out of this place, but when I found this message board it was very clear to me that this was a forum meant to act as a fansite for people who love Sasquatch and want to talk about it all day, every day. That's why it was fan created and is not an official board. And in that function it does add to the Sasquatch "community," as you put it. Everything you want to do rustuuuu sounds fantastic, and I applaud your initiative. Honestly though, that type of resource-- if responsibility is to be placed anywhere-- should be coming from the festival in an official capacity. The fact that there is some of that offered here with decent organization (yes, the search function is an epic fail though), and that we do welcome people coming to ask questions, and most of us love to answer those questions because all we want to do is talk about Sasquatch all day, every day is just an added bonus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 17:09:44 GMT -8
Also, what one person may lack in education (punctuation and grammar), due to economical, social or whatever life circumstances have got in their way, they may over exceed in something else that one of us could be weak in. Just thought I'd put that out there. I agree with this. I don't think someone's grammatical inaccuracies should invalidate their ideas. As for other types of hazing, I don't want to say it's all justified because many times it's not. However, many times it's a case of different people having different sensibilities. No one is going to get along with everyone and on the internet that's no different, it's probably even worse. Yes, I think some posters' "sense of humour" isn't funny and/or the teasing can be overboard to people they continuously poke. Then again, I think some posters take the internet way too seriously sometimes. These cases though don't fit the type of noobs that end up leaving in a few posts or a day though. Those people that walk away (or are banned) from the board that fast fit the noobs who couldn't handle typing like an adult. I can't stress enough how much "taking the internet too seriously" is wrong. The internet is a part of our lives. It is so well integrated into every part of our day that it is ludicrous to still keep it at an arms length as something that isn't "real life". Regulars come on here every day and we have developed relationships that have transcended beyond the internet. I have hugged the majority of you people. I don't think with a board like this, it is okay that after hanging around with these people, you sit back down at your laptops you can treat people poorly because the internet separates you. It is completely unfair to be great in real life and then be an asshole on the internet because you don't have to look that person in the eyes anymore. If you would be offended by something in real life, just because there is a screen in front of you doesn't mean you should somehow be less offended because it's the internet. It's still offensive. The same goes for the people you haven't touched. If you hurt someone's feelings you, you hurt their feelings. If you offend someone, you offend someone. It shouldn't matter if it's the internet or not. The internet may be an inhumane place but it doesn't make people any less human. If you wouldn't say to a stranger or someone you just met that they are a dramatic, illiterate fucking moron and need to shut the fuck up then you shouldn't say that to them here. I think there's a lot that a community like this COULD potentially add to a Sasquatch experience. Annually, there are tons of people that show up on the boards with questions and turn away with nothing because they either A. get run out of town due to being idiots, or B. cannot find what they're looking for because the search function on this site is abysmal and worthless for people who aren't on here all the time. There's a lot of basic knowledge and organization that, if it were readily available/well put together/easy to find, would drastically improve people's Sasquatch experience overall. A friend and I have discussed this and actually planned/have already started creating a resource that would do exactly this. We have plans to go through the lineup and create a directory where it's easy to listen to prime examples of each of (most of) the artists and read about why you would enjoy seeing them live. We plan on creating a map/organization system for the campground, so instead of saying "we're on the long road past the food carts to the right of the red bull truck, past the second set of porto potties, on the left and about halfway down that road", you can say "I'm in zone A3 next to a Canadian flag" and someone can legitimately use that to find you. Those things, along with a lot of basic information about camping, rules, food, advice on things to pack or many other similar topics. If this existed and was attached to the Sasquatch brand and readily available on their website, it would be a valued resource to the community, no doubt. There's nowhere on the internet that actually provides that information to anyone aside from here. And let's face it, this board is a very inefficient way to mine that info. 100% agree with KY that this board is more a fansite than anything. I don't think that the messageboard should be responsible for creating the resources Rustuuuu talked about. Also, KY what kind of changes were made on the websites that went "corporate" so to speak?
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Post by rüstü on Mar 27, 2013 17:14:07 GMT -8
You're right, I didn't mean for it to sound like it should be our responsibility to do that. I was more imagining that it's what a lot of people come here looking for, before finding out what it really is.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that we all create the thing I was talking about. I was merely mentioning that it's something I am currently working on that I think will help the community a lot. I agree that the effort to make a resource like I've planned should be coming from the festival, but it's pretty clear that they don't plan on doing anything like that. If/when we get our site up to date and ready to go, we will definitely contact Snacks or some Sasquatch people and see if it's something they would like to have as a resource. I think it would also have the nice side effect of deterring a lot of the people that end up getting berated.
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Post by Drew on Mar 27, 2013 18:00:30 GMT -8
I applaud your efforts, rustu.
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Post by kymess_jr on Mar 27, 2013 18:53:04 GMT -8
I can't stress enough how much "taking the internet too seriously" is wrong. The internet is a part of our lives. It is so well integrated into every part of our day that it is ludicrous to still keep it at an arms length as something that isn't "real life". Regulars come on here every day and we have developed relationships that have transcended beyond the internet. I have hugged the majority of you people. I don't think with a board like this, it is okay that after hanging around with these people, you sit back down at your laptops you can treat people poorly because the internet separates you. It is completely unfair to be great in real life and then be an asshole on the internet because you don't have to look that person in the eyes anymore. If you would be offended by something in real life, just because there is a screen in front of you doesn't mean you should somehow be less offended because it's the internet. It's still offensive. The same goes for the people you haven't touched. If you hurt someone's feelings you, you hurt their feelings. If you offend someone, you offend someone. It shouldn't matter if it's the internet or not. The internet may be an inhumane place but it doesn't make people any less human. If you wouldn't say to a stranger or someone you just met that they are a dramatic, illiterate fucking moron and need to shut the fuck up then you shouldn't say that to them here. I don't want what I was saying to be misconstrued as defending bullying or being an asshole, because that's not at all what I meant by "taking the internet too seriously." But this does illustrate the point I was meaning to make, and that was I think many times comments are interpreted to be something other than originally intended because it's read through the internet and left to the reader to give fuller meaning, inflection, tone etc., thusly changing how it might have been delivered otherwise. A lot of people fail to remember that when you're limited to using only the printed word for communication, things like teasing won't be translated in the same manner without stuff like visual cues or tone of speech attached. I agree with you Ro, it is never acceptable to use the shield of a computer screen to allow one's self to become an asshole when they generally would not behave that way in person. And I think the way I've behaved as a poster is in line with that (at least I hope). But some people don't think that way, and that's just the way it is. I experience this behaviour and mindset on a daily basis working at a job where I only interact with people over the phone. I have had some of the most vile things said to me over the phone by people that are apparently "very understanding" or "lovely" whenever a colleague speaks to them face to face. While I can't control (or have the chance to admonish) how these people treat me, I can control my reaction to these situations. And this doesn't mean I'm saying I should accept abuse thrown at me, and I'm not saying that's what posters should do here either. But the resulting interaction from these situations can go a variety of ways and half of that is my responsibility (or the poster responding to whatever on the board). There have been some specific interactions that have taken place here between specific boarders, and I don't want to go into those right now. Generally though, I think most of us don't turn into assholes because of the "anonymity" of the internet, and when any of us starts to take something too far, I've normally witnessed other boarders here step up to say something. Again, any noob who is "run off" in a few posts or whatever from any of this, probably isn't the type of poster that is capable of sticking around for conversations past the original question/comment they posted. Also, KY what kind of changes were made on the websites that went "corporate" so to speak? Censoring mainly. Changes began slowly but the "corporate" direction of the forums eventually overtook the place, and that lead into censoring of content so deep that if a post contained anything that didn't gel with sponsors' needs/mandates/opinions, it would be deleted. Also, once "legitimate" it really opened up the sites to the internet world at large and changed the vibe of the place drastically. Those people that we "run off" because of stupidity become the majority style of poster. Eventually it was overrun with the same stupid questions (actually making it more difficult to keep organised and get straight answers) and stupid fights/comments/trolling really rose. I belong to another forum that has a function where other users can leave anonymous "reputation" comments, positive or negative, on every post. They encourage negative rep ratings to be left on posts that are not written coherently, have clearly failed to use the search engine, or do not add to the discussion at hand (like a one-liner that just says "I agree with this guy ^"). Enough negative rep ratings by the community and you will be banned. Plenty of noobs don't last long there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 19:32:17 GMT -8
I can't stress enough how much "taking the internet too seriously" is wrong. The internet is a part of our lives. It is so well integrated into every part of our day that it is ludicrous to still keep it at an arms length as something that isn't "real life". Regulars come on here every day and we have developed relationships that have transcended beyond the internet. I have hugged the majority of you people. I don't think with a board like this, it is okay that after hanging around with these people, you sit back down at your laptops you can treat people poorly because the internet separates you. It is completely unfair to be great in real life and then be an asshole on the internet because you don't have to look that person in the eyes anymore. If you would be offended by something in real life, just because there is a screen in front of you doesn't mean you should somehow be less offended because it's the internet. It's still offensive. The same goes for the people you haven't touched. If you hurt someone's feelings you, you hurt their feelings. If you offend someone, you offend someone. It shouldn't matter if it's the internet or not. The internet may be an inhumane place but it doesn't make people any less human. If you wouldn't say to a stranger or someone you just met that they are a dramatic, illiterate fucking moron and need to shut the fuck up then you shouldn't say that to them here. I don't want what I was saying to be misconstrued as defending bullying or being an asshole, because that's not at all what I meant by "taking the internet too seriously." But this does illustrate the point I was meaning to make, and that was I think many times comments are interpreted to be something other than originally intended because it's read through the internet and left to the reader to give fuller meaning, inflection, tone etc., thusly changing how it might have been delivered otherwise. A lot of people fail to remember that when you're limited to using only the printed word for communication, things like teasing won't be translated in the same manner without stuff like visual cues or tone of speech attached. I agree with you Ro, it is never acceptable to use the shield of a computer screen to allow one's self to become an asshole when they generally would not behave that way in person. And I think the way I've behaved as a poster is in line with that (at least I hope). But some people don't think that way, and that's just the way it is. I experience this behaviour and mindset on a daily basis working at a job where I only interact with people over the phone. I have had some of the most vile things said to me over the phone by people that are apparently "very understanding" or "lovely" whenever a colleague speaks to them face to face. While I can't control (or have the chance to admonish) how these people treat me, I can control my reaction to these situations. And this doesn't mean I'm saying I should accept abuse thrown at me, and I'm not saying that's what posters should do here either. But the resulting interaction from these situations can go a variety of ways and half of that is my responsibility (or the poster responding to whatever on the board). There have been some specific interactions that have taken place here between specific boarders, and I don't want to go into those right now. Generally though, I think most of us don't turn into assholes because of the "anonymity" of the internet, and when any of us starts to take something too far, I've normally witnessed other boarders here step up to say something. Again, any noob who is "run off" in a few posts or whatever from any of this, probably isn't the type of poster that is capable of sticking around for conversations past the original question/comment they posted. Also, KY what kind of changes were made on the websites that went "corporate" so to speak? Censoring mainly. Changes began slowly but the "corporate" direction of the forums eventually overtook the place, and that lead into censoring of content so deep that if a post contained anything that didn't gel with sponsors' needs/mandates/opinions, it would be deleted. Also, once "legitimate" it really opened up the sites to the internet world at large and changed the vibe of the place drastically. Those people that we "run off" because of stupidity become the majority style of poster. Eventually it was overrun with the same stupid questions (actually making it more difficult to keep organised and get straight answers) and stupid Dr. Garbanzohts/comments/trolling really rose. I belong to another forum that has a function where other users can leave anonymous "reputation" comments, positive or negative, on every post. They encourage negative rep ratings to be left on posts that are not written coherently, have clearly failed to use the search engine, or do not add to the discussion at hand (like a one-liner that just says "I agree with this guy ^"). Enough negative rep ratings by the community and you will be banned. Plenty of noobs don't last long there. I definitely think that because you can't see the person's face or hear the intention audibly, it can lead to problems. I, personally, know that my sense of humor, sarcasm and intentions do not come over well over text. I get that 100%. So, I guess I'm just saying I would err on the side of caution. Also, in terms of the legitimization of forums, I can see how what you are talking about could happen. Thanks for explaining.
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