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AuthorTopic: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread) (Read 31,952 times)
XhornedXgrammaX
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #555 on Dec 9, 2011, 5:17pm »
No. Not pretty much. I hate having these conversations with you, davers, you pointedly ignore the relevant information when its presented.

What Friendly D said was exactly right - the difference is that you can't take it with you, and you can't play it on whatever you want. Including your clock radio or whatever. Streaming on your laptop limits you to crummy little laptop speakers. You can't listen to it on the bus or in your car; you probably can't hook it up to your poopin quads. You are limited, and it is an inconvenience, and that is your motivation to pay for it.

I call thunderous bullshit on anyone who claims to delete an album and purchase a copy when they decide they like it.
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Dec 8, 2011, 9:44pm, know ID yuh wrote:
AS A GENERAL RULE OF THUMB, DO WHAT HG SAYS.


Nov 29, 2012, 7:57pm, chud wrote:
I NEED YOU TO COME SO THAT YOU CAN TELL HORNED GRAMMA THAT I'M A POST WHALE PINOCCHIO.
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #556 on Dec 9, 2011, 7:17pm »
That's what I do HG. I listen, if I like, I buy, then delete the downloaded version. It's not always the same, for artists that have a good back ground of solid albums, and others that I have heard good things about from multiple sources, I just straight up buy. I don't always download before I buy, sometimes just youtube, grooveshark or direct artist streaming. Artists obviously can't care that much about streaming, as a large percentage of the new albums are streamed directly from the band, but I do think downloading and burning a cd is taking it to far, for all the reason you and FD already mentioned.
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #557 on Dec 9, 2011, 10:09pm »

Dec 9, 2011, 5:17pm, XhornedXgrammaX wrote:
No. Not pretty much. I hate having these conversations with you, davers, you pointedly ignore the relevant information when its presented.

What Friendly D said was exactly right - the difference is that you can't take it with you, and you can't play it on whatever you want. Including your clock radio or whatever. Streaming on your laptop limits you to crummy little laptop speakers. You can't listen to it on the bus or in your car; you probably can't hook it up to your poopin quads. You are limited, and it is an inconvenience, and that is your motivation to pay for it.

I call thunderous bullshit on anyone who claims to delete an album and purchase a copy when they decide tjey like it.


and you dont think its a matter of time until spotify gets an iphone app, or any streaming music site for that matter?
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #558 on Dec 9, 2011, 10:14pm »
No I do not think that. In fact I think that Spotify's days are numbered.
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Dec 8, 2011, 9:44pm, know ID yuh wrote:
AS A GENERAL RULE OF THUMB, DO WHAT HG SAYS.


Nov 29, 2012, 7:57pm, chud wrote:
I NEED YOU TO COME SO THAT YOU CAN TELL HORNED GRAMMA THAT I'M A POST WHALE PINOCCHIO.
know ID yuh
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #559 on Dec 9, 2011, 10:15pm »

Dec 9, 2011, 10:09pm, PatrickShmatrick wrote:

Dec 9, 2011, 5:17pm, XhornedXgrammaX wrote:
No. Not pretty much. I hate having these conversations with you, davers, you pointedly ignore the relevant information when its presented.

What Friendly D said was exactly right - the difference is that you can't take it with you, and you can't play it on whatever you want. Including your clock radio or whatever. Streaming on your laptop limits you to crummy little laptop speakers. You can't listen to it on the bus or in your car; you probably can't hook it up to your poopin quads. You are limited, and it is an inconvenience, and that is your motivation to pay for it.

I call thunderous bullshit on anyone who claims to delete an album and purchase a copy when they decide tjey like it.


and you dont think its a matter of time until spotify gets an iphone app, or any streaming music site for that matter?


YOU CAN'T TAKE A STREAM WITH YOU. DON'T YOU KNOW WHY THEY CALL IT A STREAM?
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #560 on Dec 9, 2011, 10:27pm »

Dec 9, 2011, 7:17pm, RUST NEVER SLEEPS wrote:
That's what I do HG. I listen, if I like, I buy, then delete the downloaded version. It's not always the same, for artists that have a good back ground of solid albums, and others that I have heard good things about from multiple sources, I just straight up buy. I don't always download before I buy, sometimes just youtube, grooveshark or direct artist streaming. Artists obviously can't care that much about streaming, as a large percentage of the new albums are streamed directly from the band, but I do think downloading and burning a cd is taking it to far, for all the reason you and FD already mentioned.


Rusty you are an enigma already; I honestly have no idea what kind of person you are (although I don't doubt that you're a good guy), but for whatever reason I'm willing to accept that it is possible that you actually delete pirated copies and pay for albums that you like.

That still begs the following question: what about albums that you pirate that you decide you DON'T like?
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Dec 8, 2011, 9:44pm, know ID yuh wrote:
AS A GENERAL RULE OF THUMB, DO WHAT HG SAYS.


Nov 29, 2012, 7:57pm, chud wrote:
I NEED YOU TO COME SO THAT YOU CAN TELL HORNED GRAMMA THAT I'M A POST WHALE PINOCCHIO.
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #561 on Dec 9, 2011, 10:40pm »
I'll admit I did do some downloading in the late 90s (I also was a poor college student back then), but I've gone strictly purchased with my music since then, and I have the credit card statements to prove it (ahem). I'd estimate I've spent $3000 or so on recorded music in the last decade.

Of course, I make my living in an industry that depends on copyright, which changes my perception of things quite a bit. I would never pirate software (that's seriously bad karma for me), and likewise with music and other media. I don't watch TV and almost never watch movies, so the money I save on that I can put towards music and board games (my other vice).

It's all about picking and choosing; I personally think it's worth supporting the artists you enjoy, but I leave the methods up to the fans. If you like someone, attend their shows, buy their merch, or buy an album or two. You want them to keep making music and putting on shows, right?
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #562 on Dec 9, 2011, 11:12pm »

Dec 9, 2011, 10:27pm, XhornedXgrammaX wrote:
Rusty you are an enigma already; I honestly have no idea what kind of person you are (although I don't doubt that you're a good guy), but for whatever reason I'm willing to accept that it is possible that you actually delete pirated copies and pay for albums that you like.

That still begs the following question: what about albums that you pirate that you decide you DON'T like?


Okay, I live in a town without a record store. The only place to buy albums is Walmart, Futureshop and London drugs. Those places only stock some of the top 40 , and if I'm lucky some of the other stuff. So for me I either can buy it here ( like the new Black Keys for example), buy it on Ichunes( but I want the physical copy). So I'm left to order from Amazon, or wait for a friend to come from the coast. But needless to say, thank god for youtube and grooveshark; it is there where I do the majority of my non-purchased music. I only ever download if I have heard a bunch of tracks and I can't find some of the tracks on grooveshark(which never really happens anymore), and in that case the physical copy is in the mail. So to answer your question, I don't think there has really been a time where I didn't end up getting the actually copy...except when I was in grade 8 and did some limewire downloading, but hey, I was 13.

EDIT: Upon thinking about it, if there was an album that I downloaded, and didn't end up buying it would get deleted, I don't have the hard drive space to store something I'd never again use.
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #563 on Dec 10, 2011, 12:06am »

Dec 9, 2011, 5:17pm, XhornedXgrammaX wrote:
No. Not pretty much. I hate having these conversations with you, davers, you pointedly ignore the relevant information when its presented.

What Friendly D said was exactly right - the difference is that you can't take it with you, and you can't play it on whatever you want. Including your clock radio or whatever. Streaming on your laptop limits you to crummy little laptop speakers. You can't listen to it on the bus or in your car; you probably can't hook it up to your poopin quads. You are limited, and it is an inconvenience, and that is your motivation to pay for it.

I call thunderous bullshit on anyone who claims to delete an album and purchase a copy when they decide they like it.


I feel pretty strongly about this. Downloading music without paying is stealing, just like walking out of your fav vinyl store with a 12" you didn't pay for. Doesn't matter if you hate it and throw it away. Even the musicians whose music I hate are incredibly talented and can hardly make a living.

Not to claim a spotless record myself - but don't fool yourself about what your doing (to your own self be true etc...).

Sia had an album leaked on to the intrawebs at full res and asked her fans to download and then pay when it was commercially available - so I did - and was happy to support her.

Anyway - free Dandy Warhols Xmas music (from them) at: http://xmas.dandywarhols.com/
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #564 on Dec 10, 2011, 1:36pm »
I shoulda just kept my mouth shut...

I was just wondering people's opinion on the whole streaming vs downloading scenario because in both cases the artist gets no money. True enough you can't take a stream with you, but if you have a smartphone you can use soundcloud and take that with you anywhere. Still not quite the same as having it, but it's getting pretty damn close.

And then there are programs that will record streaming music or convert files for you. Ever heard of a website where you put in the youtube address and it spits out an MP3 of the song for you to download? As far as I'm concerned this is the same as downloading, but, much more debatable on how legal this is.

I'm not fooling myself into thinking that downloading is victimless crime. When I buy a CD it's because I like the music and want to support it. I fell much more inclined to buy music from smaller artists, even though I know downloading it downloading. I also like having something physical to hold on to. I do have music I havent paid for, but I also have 30-40 CDs still in the wrapper. I never bothered to actually delete the download because it's the same anyway.

Since we are on the topic, I know some of you have subscription services for music. This is getting more and more appealing for me since my favourite music medium (the CD) is going the way of the dodo bird. Anyone mind telling me what they use, what it costs, and how big of a selection it has? And does anyone know how the artists get money from something like this? Does the company pay a fee every time an album is downloaded or is it just a lump sum deal to have the rights to the album?
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Mar 14, 2013, 6:35pm, 2ndairyfurmentashn wrote:
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #565 on Dec 10, 2011, 1:37pm »

Dec 9, 2011, 5:17pm, XhornedXgrammaX wrote:
You can't listen to it on the bus or in your car; you probably can't hook it up to your poopin quads.


This made me laugh for about 10 seconds.
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Mar 14, 2013, 6:35pm, 2ndairyfurmentashn wrote:
I want to sig this...Dr. Garbanzouring out
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #566 on Dec 10, 2011, 1:47pm »

Dec 10, 2011, 1:36pm, davers wrote:
And then there are programs that will record streaming music or convert files for you. Ever heard of a website where you put in the youtube address and it spits out an MP3 of the song for you to download? As far as I'm concerned this is the same as downloading, but, much more debatable on how legal this is.


First of all, don't feel you shoulda kept your mouth shut dude. I think it's good to have this conversation every once and a while. Plus it's nice to talk about it and not be preachin' to the choir. It may sound like we are firing back at you, but it's the internet, firing back at people is like having a gentle conversation IRL.

Although I had to laugh about your quote above. You keep bringing up these points that seem to answer your own questions. As far as the program that records streams, that's not streaming. That's stealing streams.
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #567 on Dec 10, 2011, 2:02pm »
Totally true. But in terms of legality, I dont really know where that stands. It's almost like recording songs of the radio with your tape deck (how I used to try so damn hard to get the entire song on there without the DJ talking over any of it). I dont think I ever Dr. Garbanzoured out if that was legal or not. Then there's recording TV, I know its not music, but I have never heard anyone claim it's stealing. Then again you pay for the TV signal, so it's not really the same. There I go refuting my own points again...
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Mar 14, 2013, 6:35pm, 2ndairyfurmentashn wrote:
I want to sig this...Dr. Garbanzouring out
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #568 on Dec 10, 2011, 2:17pm »

Dec 10, 2011, 2:02pm, davers wrote:
Totally true. But in terms of legality, I dont really know where that stands. It's almost like recording songs of the radio with your tape deck (how I used to try so damn hard to get the entire song on there without the DJ talking over any of it). I dont think I ever Dr. Garbanzoured out if that was legal or not. Then there's recording TV, I know its not music, but I have never heard anyone claim it's stealing. Then again you pay for the TV signal, so it's not really the same. There I go refuting my own points again...


I think a good rule of thumb would be to ask yourself if you are taking advantage of something that is being provided to you freely so that a certain art form may be heard or seen without you owning it afterwards unless you wanna buy it.

Waiting all day or for days to catch a song on the radio doesn't feel like you are taking advantage of a system. You are actively engaged and involved. I feel the downloading thing takes this sort of commitment and engaging experience out of the equation, which totally sucks. Not that the radio was the best way to get all sorts of music out to us, but at least it caused you be aware of what you liked and why you like it. It seems that people who download constantly aren't even aware of why they like the music they listen to.

I'll go back to Gramma's line about "discernible taste". Where has it gone.

I am extremely hung over right. No more talkey Talk, typing is about the most complex task in the world right now...
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Jan 27, 2013, 1:59pm, R. Kelly wrote:
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Re: General Discussion 2012 (Old Rumors Thread)
« Reply #569 on Dec 10, 2011, 2:42pm »
I guess that's a pretty fair statement about the effort required to tape that song. I was more looking at it from the point of view "the artist either gets money or they dont" but at least if someone wants to go through the trouble of using something like grooveshark (not that it's hard, but it has it's limitations) then they are probably more likely to be a bit more choosy about what they listen to. On the other hand with torrents you can just download massive files that have dozens of artists entire discography with a couple clicks.

If someone has to put in more effort then they likely have more of a commitment to the music and will probably be more likely to buy the album, see the shows and wear the teeshirts.

OK thats enough for now, thanks for helping me see things from a different angle. I'll let you get back to your sunglasses and Advil.

(But if anyone has advice on the whole music subscription thing it would be much appreciated)
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Mar 14, 2013, 6:35pm, 2ndairyfurmentashn wrote:
I want to sig this...Dr. Garbanzouring out
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